tv MSNBC Live with Kendis Gibson MSNBC November 23, 2019 11:00am-1:00pm PST
my good friend kendis gibson said to me, but i'm going to let it go. anyway, take it away. got a busy day. >> happy saturday. happy saturday earveryone, i'm kendis gibson live at msnbc headquarter, in new york. following new questions what role secretary of state mike pompeo may have played in the smear campaign to remove u.s. ambassador marie yovanovitch in ukraine. a russian re-do. the u.s. intelligence community sounding the alarm about russian meddling again. so why are so many republicans including president trump still promoting putin's false narrative? after a whirlwind two weeks of public testimony from 12 different witnesses, 35-plus hours, where do voters stand on impeachment? the new polling that tells us just how closely americans have been watching all of this and whether they've already made up their minds. we begin with intriguing new
information now out showing what was going on behind the scenes between president trump and his staff and ukraine bp this week's testimony is filled with bombshell after bombshell from seven witnesses in the impeachment inquiry. late last night, revealing documents released by the state department. we go to nbc's kelly o'donnell sifting through it all. kelly, busy saturday as we mentioned. these documents do appear to show sort of a paper trail linking the president's personal lawyer, rudy giuliani, and secretary of state, mike pompeo to a smear campaign against the ambassador? >> reporter: they may be going too far fop this reason. 's documents do show a smear campaign. the question of involvement of the secretary of state is the piece not fully developed here. what we see in these documents that have been released through a lawsuit from an advocacy group that got them reap leased, pages and pages of information like
the documents that rudy giuliani prepared and provided to the department of state about his contacts in ukraine and in that there's certainly a lot of critical information of marie yovanovitch. were we know that rudy giuliani believed and contended through his research that there were officials in ukraine who believed she was too close to joe biden. that's where part of that smear campaign that she testified really had, came out into the open. the question of the connection to mike pompeo is interesting and new. here's what the documents show us. a four-minute phone call between secretary pompeo and rudy giuliani in march of this year, and that this kind of treasure-trove of documents that giuliani put together was provided to the department of state, and pompeo says that he provided that to the inspector general at the department of state. it appears to be that's the only connection between pompeo and giuliani. some of the documents show that giuliani had been trying to reach pompeo, hadn't been able
to get in touch with him. giuliani's assistant reached out to the president's at that time personal assistant. the woman who dealt with everything going in and out of the oval office, and she put them together. she connected secretary pompeo and how to get in touch with him and schedule a phone meeting with rudy giuliani. based on the documents, that meeting last the four minutes on the telephone. how we extrapolate that will take more digging. marie yovanovitch testified in heartfelt terms how she lost her position, recalled by the president, although he can recall any ambassador. the question was, why was her reputation sullied in the process? giuliani and his associates have argued that ukrainian officials believed that yovanovitch was too close to biden. she testified that she was non-partisan. that she worked for presidents bush, obama and trump and that was an unfair, unsupported
thing. one of the criticisms of pompeo he did not come out in the support of her in documents we see from letters of congress. strongly supported ambassador yovanovitch at the time. some of what's behind the scenes in these documents and interesting reading how the dots are connected, that's not fully connected, but we know giuliani for a long time has pressed this case he believes there's more to it it in ukraine and we heard from officials who say that's what russia wants everything to think to cover up for its own tracks of interference and we, of course, heard from john bolton resurfaced after his departure from the white house. the national security adviser and is now back on twitter and looking forward to talk about the issues of the day. we don't expect he will testify in the impeachment hearings because the public phase appears to be closed. he as top official was kind of listening to the white house to say not talking about, not
testifying about his direct interaction. bolton is back. he's back on twitter, and says he will be talking about the issues that are important going forward. that's something we're tracking as well. kendis? >> tweeting up a storm, inkrieging words, but not many details yet. kelly o'donnell from the white house. thank you. congressional lawmakers are off for the holiday week. coming off a week unlike any other on capitol hill. what happens now? where does the impeachment inquiry go from here? joining me from d.c., chris, a former assistant to barack obama anden chief of the house oversight committee critic. what about now? >> democrats feel they have more than it enough information to impeach the president and certainly if you base it on the standards we used in the nixon impeach arement and clinton impeachment they're correct on that. the real question is whether it is worth trying to get access to more witnesses, more documents.
i mean, the documents you just mentioned with kelly are incredibly important and raises additional questions. why, for instance, is mike pompeo taking cues about an ambassador from a private citizen, rudy giuliani? we know pompeo hasn't been particularly candid in all this, was on the july 25th call. certainly never disclosed it and as we learned this past week gordon sondland said he kept pompeo in the loop on all of this. we know there are additional documents, additional witnesses that could be interviewed'sthe question is whether it's worth the delay at this point in seeking it to go down that road. we know some of the close advisers like pompeo, bolton, will litigate not having to testify before congress. >> a lot of people wondering whether we'll see additional questioning. does that solely depend on what happens with additional subpoenas? >> i think that's exactly right. thises white house has been engaged in an obstruction strategy, and they know full well they could litigate this
out in the courts for several months. it's worth noting there's a case of an, an unrelated case in district court here on d.c. monday may rule whether don mcgahn, former white house counsel works have to testify as part of testimony about the mueller investigation that the judiciary committee is seeking and could impact on all this as well. i think it's important to understand what we've seen over the last two weeks which is every defense that the republicans came in with, whether no quid pro quo, no firsthand knowledge, ukrainians didn't know, basically shredded to pieces by the witnesses. so, really, there's not much left are and republicans are left either impugning the witnesses or basically arguing that, you know, the crime wasn't fully committed, because the president was caught in the act and so it will be interesting to see where republicans go from here as well. >> some are saying, at least speculating, or making the argument that they don't need mulvaney or bolton for this part
of the process. the impeachment process in the house. it will be decided whether or not through the courts whether they can testify, and perhaps they will be key witnesses when it gets over to the senate? >> you know, i think that's right. i would simply say this. we know that this is a president who does not want to be impeached notwithstanding all of his bluster. be sure if any of the witnesses, bolton, mulvaney, pompeo, perry, had information would exonerate the president, you sure as heck believe the president would put them out there. he put out the transcript of the july 25th phone call because he thought it was helpful to him. he's willing to put out helpful information but holding back the unhelpful information. easy to draw an inference these people aren't going to offer helpful testimony to him. >> leave it there. thank you. a in you ponew poll shows v majority of israelis want long-term prime minister
benjamin netanyahu out. longest serving also first to be indicted while in office. prosecutors filed charges of bribery, fraud and breach of trust against him this week. nbc's molly hunter is in tel aviv following developments. for now, molly, appears as if netanyahu is refusing to step down? >> reporter: israeli prime minister netanyahu is not backing down. he came out swinging after those indictments were handed out. he accused investigators of launching an attempted coup, calmed it tainted and tweeted out thanking supporters for their support. this sounds's familiar. his friend, president donald trump. 56% of israelis want prime minister netanyahu to resign. it shows some israelis, many israelis, don't want the same guy running the country while at the same time he is defending
himself in court. what happens now politically is anyone's game. there's three weeks where basically any member of knesset it cobble taugogether 61 votes become prime minister. en whether or not netanyahu will standing standing in three weeks, we still don't know. >> thank you. now to the 2020 presidential race. democrat candidates are fanning out all over the country today primarily focusing on those key early voting states. senator elizabeth warren along with many others are in new hampshire where voters will take part in the nation's first primary in less than three months. almost near the end. ali vitali joins me from salem, new hampshire. ali, according to the warren campaign she now has nearly 50 state representatives of towns throughout new hampshire endorsing her. has she seen similar
support-from-voters? >> reporter: kendis, she rolled those out last week. on the ground you see in the polling a few other candidates are having pops in the polls. pete buttigieg among them. the real clear politics average still has elizabeth warren slightly ahead of the rest of the field but really there are a lot of candidates competing here just as across the map. we like to think about there being a clear front-runner. in this race, actually there's four. polling across the early states and nationally, pete buttigieg, joe biden, bernie sanders and elizabeth warren jockeying for position in all of those polls. the way that they improve their position is ground game. why we're here at this coffee shop because "live" a flv elizan was getting ready to door knock. the life blood of all the campaigns. you can't succeed in states like south carolina, new hampshire, and nevada if not organizing on
a grass roots level. senator warren says she has a cold, was sick but stayed for selfies. the goal on the ground, get out the vote efforts whether rallies and events or sending people door to door, door knocking catching as many voters early as they can for voters. >> topics of interest, curious. have they followed the impeachment hearings at all? >> reporter: yes, they have. kendis, yesterday we were in florida talking with voters there. today we spoke to a voter here. all telling us they are watching. the thing that's funny, basically have lives. not watching every mint of these testimonies but picking them up when they can. in the car on the radio at night when they can camp highlights. the important to them. one woman here about to go door knocking said she was here, listening, but it was something she called a distraction. listen to what she told me. >> do you feel like impeachment
is drowning out the 2020 race a little bit? >> a little bit, yeah. but it's also drowning out a lot of other things. like the environment and what's happening at the epa and how deregulations is happening all the time and i'm really frustrated but think it has to be done. >> reporter: kendis, what she said to me there is something i've heard repeatedly. voters who say it until something they're watching with glee, not exciting about impeaching a president. it's important to show no one is above the law even the president and are supportive of democratic efforts in washington at least now. even for the most part it's clouding out the 2020 race. >> people are tuned in to those hearings. ali vitali, thank you. appreciate it. happening right now and overe is as, vice president mike pence flying back to the united states after making an unannounced visit to troops in
iraq. after a speech and serving some turkey meals to sol verifies pence met with the iraqi president as a gesture to reassure the kurds after president trump's abrupt withdraw from syria. >> i want to extend the greetings of president trump. we were able to catch the last inch of territory controlled by isis in syria and this would not have been possible without the extraordinary alliance and partnership. >> all this as deadly anti-corruption protests in baghdad intensify against this weekend. more than 300 people have died in the demonstrations so far, and over 15,000 "new york post"
growing criticism over prince andrewed friendship with jeffrey epstein. it's impacting the prince's charity projects. and uncovered at syracuse university. the measures school officials are taking now after student pro tests and calls for actions. us to the super bowl. we were able to meet shawn mendes. verizon got me into the nfl combine, they don't even sell tickets to this thing. (announcer) verizon knows you love live music and sports. we got to be this far away from the stage. (announcer) that's why we give you access to more jaw-dropping experiences, including nfl games and events. i've never had a vip experience before like that. probably the best moment of my life. (announcer) switch now and you'll get access to thousands of tickets on us. plus, one of our best phones when you buy another, because the network more people rely on, gives you more. fthe prilosec otc two-weekymore. challenge is helping people love what they love again. just one pill a day. 24 hours. zero heartburn. because life starts when heartburn stops.
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together joining forces with campus authorities in syracuse to investigate a series of racist and anti-semitic messages. the graffiti, dozens, discovered in the last couple of weeks forcing the university to suspend at least one fraternity and temporarily remove another four students from campus. all of this after a week-long protest sit-in. the school's chancellor signed this agreement right here. a list of demands to combat all of this. joining me now is a senior at syracuse university morgan fral covering this. where were the messages seen and to what extent were they racist and anti-semitic? >> yes. there have weren't all different types of messages whether written on bathroom stalls or written's in the snow. a swastika, saw it with my own eyes outside of an apartment complex and the n word slurs against asian people, against native american people, found all over the mp ka is. >> do authorities have any idea who's behind all this?
>> as are right now, nothing they can tell us about who's behind it because they don't have any surveillance inside the dorms and also don't have anything inside bathrooms as were el. they can't tell who's done it, and everyone they've interviewed says they had nothing to do with it. >> earlier in the week the university was investigating multiple reports of a white supremacist manifesto sent to some students' cell phones. before confirming, though, it was likely a hoax and many saying the school didn't respond fast enough to all of this, and mass panic around the campus broke out. what is the situation like there at this campus? >> well, as of right now there does seem to be a lack of transparency between the administration and the students. this event happened. the main event happened four days before the administration even responded to it. i think along with just the racist rhetoric, people are upset and don't feel the school is taking this seriously and
taking accountability for the actions happening. >> it's a melting pot. sad to see all of this taking place there. appreciate it. a flood of new lawsuits expected to hit jeffrey epstein's estate in the coming weeks according to lawyers representing victims of the accused sex trafficker. the latest filed her lawsuit thursday claiming she was "the perfect victim after meeting epstein at just 17 years old." her move coming one day after another woman anonymously sued ep seine's estate in mat the hatton claiming he assaulted her at age 16. earlier in the week yet another victim going by jane doe 15 announced her lawsuit alongside glo gloria allred and urging prince andrew to come forward. and the ties between jeffrey epstein and prince andrew, the fallout continues following the
damning interview with the bbc last week confirming maumt pult sonsers are cutting ties with the prince's project. a charity just a few days after he said he would step down from future royal duties in the near future. the prince was noticed yesterday riding horseback with his mom, the queen, and then you see headlines he's been kicked out of buckingham palace? >> reporter: yes, kendis. that's right. pictures coming out giving a first glimpse of his royal rift of sorts happening after this interview labeled a p.r. disaster by the prince. as regards his presence in buckingham palace, the royal family typically would feel buckingham is a second home. about this past week the son of the queen known answer the party prince now finds his royal footing on a bit of a slippery slope.
a first look at prince andrew trying to ride up a storm an a botched interview about disgraced financier jeffrey epstein. leading to him stepping back from royal doings. said to be moving out, going outside of buckingham palace, the news not even a week after becoming a p.r. nightmare, do i regret the fact he has quite obviously conducted himself in a matter unbecoming, yes. >> unbecoming? he was a sex offender. >> yes. i'm sorry. i'm being polite in the sense he was a sex offender. >> the fallout growing by the day. the english national ballet, royal philharmonic orchestra and metropolitan university announced he would not lock eloe their patron effective immediately. in light of the current
situation we will regretfully no longer participate in the program. for now the royal family staying tight lipped. as the prince retreats, new calls for him to meet with investigators with jeffrey epstein. >> whether a pope or a pauper he or she should cooperate. >> reporter: for now the royal family faces a scandal different than any seen before. >> the queen has been on the throne 67 years and has seen the old world diplomatic scandal. she's seen her own family scandal. dealt with tragic and untimely death of diana princess of wales and never had to receive and accept from her second son a request to withdraw from royal duties. >> reporter: as for that request to theory drau, conte ror ror o
consulted with prince charge before making it official and letting prince andrew step back. meaning prince charles could have a hand's in his little brother's fate. and house republicans pushing a debunk hery about election meddling right to moscow. blaming ukraine despite warnings this conspiracy theory could actually help russia. ld actually help russia. ♪ limu emu & doug
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former white house adviser fiona hill may not have been able to move any republican house members with her testimony but she did something else. moved books. her book, mr. putin, operative in kremlin written in 2012 became a best-seller overnight thanks to her testimony thursday landing in the top five hard cover books on amazon. one of the most stark statements we heard this week in the impeachment hearings came in the form of a warning to lawmakers from hill. >> end of the day the commander in chief concerned about 2016 election meddling by ukraine. >> at the same time certain ukrainians did work against candidate trump. some with the dnc. >> alexandria chalupa, former
dnc who admitted she submitted to the dnc and hillary clinton. nelly ore. >> now the sound from fiona hill. take a listen. oh, actually, never mind. she offered a stern warning to many, many lawmakers. you can imagine. joining me, an editorial board member of the "new york times." thank you for being here. you heard some of the republicans there speaking on capitol hill, and we have reports now that the republican senators have actually been briefed that the ukrainian conspiracy theory is russian propaganda. why is it that so many house republicans aren't buying that message? >> so i'm not convinced that they weren't buying it. what's even sadder is that they are more interested in playing to their base and protecting their right frank in primaries.
they don't want to be primaried from the right. they don't want trump coming after them and so they're willing to toe the company line. which in this case is a line from the white house and to protect the president despite evidence that actually the president has committed wrongdoing, and also evidence that is overwhelming from our own intelligence agencies that russia actually is the origin -- russia is the identity that meddled in our election. it's really a lot to take, frankly, watching them do this and then wrapping themselves in the flag as though they are patriots when, in fact, it's quite the opposite, and you have very courageous public officials, public servants like fiona hill who have come forward. these are not political appointees. these are people who have just our government's interest in mind. >> taking putin's playbook including the president on his
latest appearance here on fox news. take a listen. >> a lot of it had to do, they say, with ukraine. >> mr. president -- >> very interesting. it's very interesting. they have -- the server. right? from the dnc. democratic national committee. >> who has the server? >> the fbi went in and told them get out of here we're not giving it to you. they gave the server to crowdstrike or whatever it's called which is a company owned by a very wealthy ukrainian. >> motivation here behind this move by the president to continue to push this conspiracy theory against ukraine? >> this is what about-ism. right? this is essentially the president distracting or trying to distract the american people from his own wrongdoing and potential crimes. and, in fact, buying into a conspiracy theory that has been pushed by russia, which is not our ally, and is, in fact, in some ways an enemy.
it's a betrayal, and i hope that not just democrats but that those are good conscious on both sides of the aisle and more public servants come forward to tell the real story and we really need to separate propaganda from facts here and it's hard for americans to keep track of it. that's really important. >> and really important for americans to pay attention to all this. the newest npr pbs poll, american will not change they are minds at all on the impeachment effort. >> the divide in the country extends beyond politics to culture. also there have been polls that show more americans than ever would be upset if their child was to marry someone of the opposite political party. you used to see that along racial lines in this country. now we're seeing a deep cultural divide where people are living in two separate countries, in
two spritz universes listening to different news. i'm not sure how you bridge that. it will take more an an election to do so. >> it's called a thanksgiving table. >> oh, boy. saddle up. >> we'll dive into that later on in this program. thank you. >> thanks for having me. >> appreciate your time. the 2020 democratic candidates are stepping up the competition for the critical black vote. who's been successful and who is still struggling to earn support? support? before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right. usaa. what you're made of, we're made for. usaa
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a much anticipated report about to be released from the justice department expected to criticize members of the fbi for overstepping the foreign intelligence surveillance act. otherwise known at fisa. how president trump characterized it in an interview with "fox & friends." >> this is spying on my campaign something that has never been done in the history of our country. an overthrow attempt at the presidency. they tried to overthrow the presidency. this is a disgrace. >> initial reports suggest it will discuss possible wrongdoing and it will absolve some fbi members of acting out of political bias against the president. charlie savage covers washington for the "new york times" and joins us from d.c. what can you tell us about the report? at least how far the report goes in its criticism of the fbi. >> so this report which my colleague adam goldman and i broke a lot of news about
yesterday is going to come out in a couple weeks. we'll all be able to see it for ourselves. we think it's hundreds of pages long. because it's being reviewed, discussed and passed around the justice department at this point, early accounts of what's in it are starting to emerge. the big takeaway is that this sort of conspiracy theory, insinuations trump and his allies and right wing media and republicans in congress have thrown around the last couple of years people like jim comey, andy mccabe and pete strzok and we heard from trump there were trying to overthrow his presidency acting out of political bias abusing powers because they opposed him as president is not going to be supported by the evidence gathered by the independent inspector general in this report. he's going to criticize the fbi for sure. he screutinized beginning of th russia investigation and the
famous fisa wiretap for a former trump official, carter page and found a lot of problems with the scorching scrutiny he brought on every piece of paper. portraying it as sloppy, things left in should have been taken out. thingsut in, left out that should have been put in and in particular found a low-level lawyer altered and email he sent to another fbi agent who was going to sign an affidavit saying various facts were true and that that lawyer has been referred for criminal charges for making a false comment to a colleague. problems, no doubt. but not the sort of thing we've heard about apparently at the highest levels of these partisan firefight over this investigation. more sort of bureaucratic bumbling. so that's what we can tell ought this point. there's more, however, to come as we see the full report. >> so a he-level lawyer may be in a little trouble, but you're
not hearing this about bigger names -- >> a lot of trouble. >> a lot of trouble -- that they would be in like strzok, comey, mccabe? >> the people trump made famous and vilified will not, it appears, accused of abusing their power for political reasons notwithstanding how trump portrayed them in people like devin nunes and sean hannity vilified and vofolks ha done over the years. the inspector general found opening of the investigation met the legal standards to be open. it was no the using cia information, was not using information from the notorious steele dossier. and a vattese professor, the one george papadopoulos had a conversation with and told papadopoulos russia hacked
hillary clinton emails, that fact was important in opening this investigation. some conspiracy theories, well maybe an fbi informant and it wall w this is rigged. no report of that. stuff like that. on the other hand problems on the paperwork level, coordination level, sloppy, unprofessional conduct. so this one guy referred for criminal charges. i expect this is going to give both sides something to seize upon and say, see we're vindicated. either the fbi wasn't guilty of all of this stuff but did all this other bad stuff and in particular that attorney who's in trouble now is one of those people sending text messages suggesting he did not like the fact trump had been elected president. that's going to be a big thing we hear about. >> okay. both sides will have something to talk about after this report. charlie savage joining us, thank you. former new york city mayor michael bloomberg is spending more than $30 million in an
unprecedented ad buy outstependg the other candidates even though not announcing he's running for president. some may run as soon as monday. reports say bloomberg plans to spend up top half a billion of his own money on the president's campaign. again, if he decides to run. eight-figure campaign expenditures are nothing new for bloomberg. in 2018 he spent $80 million to help flip the house for democrats. as democratic hopefuls fan out across the country this weekend, they're in a high-stakes race to win support of a key constituency. the black voters. according to the latest quinnipiac poll biden leads the pack with 4 perce4%. harris at 6%. with me now, republican consultant michael singleton with me from d.c. and i wanted to get you on because of an
interesting article in the "washington examiner" this week. you wrote that all voters regardless of political party want to believe there's someone to fight for them. they want someone who's going to stand up to their perceive boogie man but none of the current pool of the candidates appears to do that, you say. why do you think that? >> i think joe biden is leading with african-americans because they view him as a safe choice. think about what plagues african-americans from health care, economics, education, these issues go beyond criminal justice. a lot of times you hear candidates talk about what plagues our community, it's about police brutality and criminal justice reform. something interesting kamala harris and cory booker adds to the process, issues i just named that go beyond that. these candidates have to look at the black community beyond those
two issues. they care about issues that impact white communities and latinos and hispanics, for example, and you don't see it coming from the countries outside of the two african-american candidates and they're not doll weing well bec african-american voters may be cautious about whether they can get elected and that's why joe biden does so well. >> forgetting other issues. the economy, climate change, we care about those things as well. >> right, we care about those as well. >> and a plurality of black voters, 43% backing biden in the latest quinnipiac poll arguments, not in younger black voters. why is that the case? >> joe biden's past particularly on issues of criminal justice a lot of people, and my age group,
millennials, for example, have fathers or uncles, cousins directly impacted. i had an anuncle directly impacd by three strikes you're out rule. joe biden was the architect of that. i personally like biden but understand why a lot of my peers are not excited about hill. again, they want someone who's going to fight directly for issues that concern and impact african-americans, and that's why when i look at people look booker and harris, a lot of political pundits have written them off. i'm not willing to do that yet, kendis, because we just don't know how younger black voters will impact this race when it gets to south carolina and beyond. >> indeed. a lot of black folk, i was on the radio on sirius. they were talking about harris and booker and having great performances this week. michael singleton, thank you. the stock price for the american car company tesla shot down a whopping $21 this weekend. losing 6% of all its value
yesterday. all because of this. >> oh, my -- well, maybe that was a little too hard. [ laughter ] let me try. >> sorry? it didn't go through. that's the plus side. try another one. >> really? okay. >> sure. oh, man. >> it didn't go through. >> you had one job. elon musk unveiling the company's new cyber truck with what was supposed to be bull bullet-proof glass left standing with the company's designer, used to be chief designer, we don't know. telling him it was bullet-proof. after that, there's room for improvement. we're back after this. one job. back after this. one job. these days, we're all stressed.
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social and political writer and commentator. so let's start with apple's decision now to postpone its feature film "the banker" just weeks before its sterile erelea. two african-american aunt trat ne entrepreneurs recruited a white man to front their business to overcome racial barriers. one producer of the film is garrett's son. bernard garrett jr. who faces accusations of sexual abuse from two relatives who claim the film misrepresents their family. apple with a statement releasing it saying we purchased the banker earlier this year moved by the film's entertaining and educational story about social change and financial literacy. last week concerns surrounding the film were brought to our attention. we along with the filmmakers need time to look into these
matters and determine the best next steps. so i know you saw the movie and saw it with the actors and the director. >> yes. >> this movie had been in the work for quite some time. >> yes. i mean, it's taken ten years to get it made. it's a real shame this has happened. obviously i understand concerns from the family. the movie itself is powerful with extremely powerful messaging and i do hope that this can be overcome so people can actually see this movie. it's timely and important especially for black audiences to see. >> and i know you spoke with one of the relatives, one of garrett's relatives. i believe cynthia is her name. and any reaction from them about what this move that apple took? >> well, cynthia is very troubled by all of this. she and her sister sheila are alleging their half brother bernard garrett jr. sexually abused them when they were younger and beyond that she also
is saying that the film, the story line, the timeline was manipulated, and that cynthia and her sister were cut out of the film on purpose. that there was some deceptive storytelling here. so she is very concerned that her half brother is profiting off of the family that he has, according to her, caused so much pain to. so she is hoping she will be able to speak with tim koch. what tim cook and hoping to come to a solution to be able to turn this from a negative into a positive, but she's not exactly sure what that looks like just yet. >> it's not a financial solution or does she want them to re-do the story? any sense of what she wants? >> you know, i don't get the sense from her that money is going to heal here. i'm not exactly sure what she wants, and i don't know that she's exactly sure what she wants at this stage.
i think she just wants to have a conversation and that's what she told me. she told me that's where she believes the healing will begin, just having a conversation about this. >> a sense that this is, this movie we'll never see in light of that? >> i really hope that's not the case, because that side the family is not in the movie. i understand maybe they're upset about that. but it is possible. it is definitely possible that it may never see the light of day. >> all right. thank you both. joe biden called out to republican senator lindsey graham and got visibly angry. >> lindsey is about to go down in a way that i think he's going to regret his whole life. >> what do you say to him? >> i say, lindsey, i -- i just -- i'm just embarrassed by what you're doing for you. i mean, my lord. >> this after the senator announced he would be looking into barisma and hunter biden.
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hi, everyone. i'm kendis gibson live from msnbc world headquarters in new york. thanks for joining us on this busy saturday afternoon. what do mike pompeo and rudy giuliani know? and will they talk about it? revealing documents released last night suggest a new link between the secretary of state and the president's personal
attorney. let's grow to the white house right now to get us started on all this. kelly o'donnell is there for us. kelly what do we know about what the report says about pompeo and giuliani? >> reporter: kendis, this comes about because of a freedom of information suit by a group that was able to get this 100 pages of documents out of the statement department. remember, of course, the state department has not been providing things to the impeachment inquiry. it gives a window we haven't seen before. within these documents are included rudy giuliani, the president's personal lawyer, his own investigative file, when it comes to ukraine and the bidens. numerous references to joe and hunter biden. so the documents that giuliani wanted secretary of state pompeo to have are included. in addition, there are pages are letters of support for the u.s. ambassador at the time to ukraine, marie yovanovitch, one of the witnesses we saw testify in public about the smear campaign against her. so there are letters of support
included in there. largely from democratic lawmakers who wrote to the state department concerned about this. and we learned that there is an effort made by giuliani's assistant to try to get giuliani and secretary of state pompeo in touch. and she went through the white house and the president at the time, his personal assistant to try to make that happen. there are emails that piece that together, and it resulted in a phone call in march between giuliani and pompeo. now, what we don't know is what pompeo said about this, did about it. what his views were. we just have this trail of documents, phone records and letters from lawmakers that connect it all together in the time period of the spring of this year that shows how much giuliani was trying to get pompeo onboard. what we know is he wanted the investigation of the bidens. we know he believed that marie yovanovitch was somehow attached to biden, supportive of biden. she, of course, testified she was not partisan, she had only
the interests of the u.s. government as her motivation. not a partisan. and she got a lot of, a lot of her questioning dealt with the issue of how she was treated in being removed from that post and spoke in heartfelt terms what that experience meant for her. it gives another window what was happening behind the scene. a lot of questions what it means but it demonstrates how rudy giuliani working privately for the president was trying to intersect with the official channels of government. kendis? >> kelly o'donnell at the white house. thank you. attorneys for the indicted ukrainian associate of rudy giuliani lev parnas now saying he has hard evidence against the top republican of the house intelligence committee devin nunes. claims shows he met with an ex-ukrainian official to get dirt on the bidens late last year and parnas is willing to tell all of this, they say,
under oath. the new dadames coming after a beast article leaked earlier. that's been the center of the impeachment inquiry, nunes has been. democrats quick to reference the report in a line of questioning towards former adviser on russia and europe fiona hill during thursday's hearing. >> are you aware of yesterday's daily beast story reporting the indicted ukrainian lev parnas has been working with ranking member devin nunes on mr. nuness overseas investigation. >> i'm not aware of that. >> mr. chairman i ask unanimous consent to put in the record the daily beast story lev parnas and devin nunes' investigation into the bidens. >> without objection. >> and breaking the story, joining me now. interesting here. this new development. how does this play into the fact nunes is not only a ranking member there on the committee but the leading republican in
these impeachment hearings? are there going to be any sort of repercussion us? >> that's right. the on the only person that can be based on this, kevin mccarthy, top republican on capitol hill on the house side. a staunch ally of president trump's and strikes me as extremely unlikely that he would take any action against nunes who also is a very strong ally of president trump's as well. but this reporting really brings out a new color and really important context to the entire impeachment process. remember, hleb parnd lev parnasy closely with giuliani for quite some heim helping with the effort to recallancy yovanovitch, a witness in the impeachment hearings and indicators he had visibility into the way rudy giuliani tried to influence the administration or the federal government in
kiev. in fact, one of parnas' lawyers told me on the record that parnas was present for the meeting in madrid where rudy giuliani spoke with one of the ukrainian president's top deputies and told him what's been characterized. rudy's description of what he told him that he said the ukrainian government needed to play ball with the trump administration when it came to investigating the bidens. parnas has detailed firsthand knowledge. according to his lawyers, of a number of most important character in this whole saga. >> in other words, as they like to say, he's got receipts. meantime, rudy giuliani knowing that appeared on fox news today hitting back at parnas and his attorneys. take a listen. >> it's up to him. i can't tell him to do it. i don't represent him. as far as i'm concerned he can testify to everything he did and it was perfectly appropriate, perfectly normal. if he wants to do that he could make himself into another michael cohen.
i don't know what's going on. his lawyer makes comments not only untrue, provably untrue. >> it does appear as they're heading in different paths right now, betsy? >> no joke. a bit of a divergence of these two. look, if giuliani says the comments parnas' lawyers have made are provably untrue that independents case giuliani might have proof and perhaps it would behoove him to make that proof public. now that the lawyers for parnas are on the record saying what they believe to be true regarding parnas' involvement in this entire saga, and his visibility into rudy giuliani and devin nunes' connections to the question regarding the bidens. look, tbd what giuliani says. any number of reporters would be extremely interested in the proof he appears to be alouding there, but yet to the produce. >> interesting to see what parnas has to say, if he gets the opportunity to talk. betsy woodruff swine, thank you.
appreciate it. turning to 2020 politics and joe biden on his 15th trip to iowa today. secured a highly coveted endo e endorsement. the former governor iowa tom vilsack and his wife supporting joe biden as the former vice president looks to shore up support in the first caucus state. bring in nbc news road warrior, in des moines right now. you're following the biden campaign today. what are some of the caucusgoers, the town halls he's visiting, keenly interested in? >> reporter: it's interesting. it's very different from something that we're talking about very often on television, and across the news cycle which is impeachment. that actually doesn't come up in any of the town halls i've heard here in iowa or others biden held across the country. instead asking about his plan for education, plan to end
violence against women he often referred to as passion for his life in politics, and things from tax reform to even health care. interestingly, when trump does come up, it's something like what we heard yesterday, which is how are you going to debate president trump? he said, listen, i know on the debate stage at least the democrats, i don't come off as that assertive and that's simply a preference of his because he doesn't want to necessarily directly attack the character of his democratic opponents. but he says, don't mistake that for what is to come. if i am the nominee. i know how to take bullies and will definitely throw a punch at trump whenever it's needed. >> do you get a sense that endorsement gives his a boost out there. >> reporter: something the biden campaign is hoping for. especially at a time when his front-runner status in iowa is slipping a little.
not as durable as when he first jumped into the race several months ago. so far today when he was in des moines earlier with vilsack, the crowd was very enthusiastic. one of his largest crowds in the hawkeye state, and both vilsack and biden received standing ovations, and a lot of them were like playing along with biden or vilsack, depending what they were saying. cheering on for joe whenever they could. so it seems like it could help, but according to our iowa embeds, they say that this heavyweight endorsement of theirs may not be resonating as much. something we have to keep an eye on moving forward. >> ville vsack was very popular governor up there. thank you. breaking news right now. potentially a big deal. the secretary of the navy we're told is threatening to resign after president trump waded into the case of a navy s.e.a.l.
accused of murder. the secretary richard spencer considering stepping down after trump demanded that the navy stop a probe of chief petty officer edward gallagher. live on the phone, nbc news correspondent courtney kube. what's happening here? >> reporter: a lot of people are familiar with this case. eddie gallagher, president trump waded into the case several times, getting him moved out of confinement months ago while still on trial and openly weighing in throughout the course of the process. gallagher was acquitted of murder charges of killing an isis detainee in iraq, but he was found guilty of posing with a photograph. or posing for a photograph with the isis detainee's body, which, of course, is against the law. it's a war crime. president trump was furious when he found out that the navy was going to undergo a review board process. what they call a trident review
board to determine whether gallagher should have his triedened tried entried -- trident removed. this is the pin they earn, a difficult training to make them a navy s.e.a.l. it wouldn't be kicking him out of the navy but stripping him of the trident pin is a sign of stature, something s.e.a.l.s earn and wear proudly. it would be a degradation of his standing. become more of a conventional sailor as opposeds to a navy s.e.a.l. after the announcement the navy would move forward, president trump tweeted thursday the navy would not be removing the trident seal and said it very sternly in a tweet. through the course of our reporting with me colleague we learned which the navy secretary saw that he was so upset that he started telling colleagues, if the president weighs in on this i'm going to resign, or considering resignation. many went to the white house and said, if you want to do this we need a written order telling us to stop the review process.
once the other military leaders and pentagon leaders found out secretary spencer was so upset and felt this strongly about this they convened a group together thursday night to talk to the president and lay ow-of-out the consequences interfering in the eddie gallagher case and two other cases in which he pardoned two u.s. soldiers just last week. >> i mentioned top of the hour this is a big deal. it's very rare to have the commander in chief in essence put in an order and somebody there within the military to say, no, we disagreed with this and are willing to quit as a result of this. >> reporter: absolutely kendis. very rare. this is such an unusual situation. it's not -- he's the commander in chief, president trump, he has authority to do pretty much anything within the law when it comes to the u.s. military
including pardons. it includes many different things. this case is so unusual, because when the president first tweeted this saying that the navy would not move forward with a review board process, this is a peer review process. other sailors will review the cases, the facts of this case, and determine whether the trident should be taken away. essentially like an accreditation. if you try to put it in the civilian world. like an accreditation they would take away from him. it was so, it's so unusual that after the tweet a lot of the reporters in the pentagon were walking around, asking, can he do this? can the president actually weigh in on something like this and people telling us they weren't really sure. so that part is extremely uncommon. seems as commander in chief he can do that, weigh in and has authority to stop this. also the fact that someone who was a political appointee felt
so strongly about the concern for good order and discipline and morale of the force he's threatens to resign over in is consideri resignation is als very uncommon. >> breaking news. richard spencer, navy secretary has threatened to resign, all over an order by the commander in chief, the president. more on this as we get. john bolton breaks silence with a cryptic message. he tweeted, it's time to speak up again. his new claim and the white house response. and new documents revealed what was going on behind the scenes between mike pompeo and rudy giuliani and ukraine. storage solutions from $9.99. and area rugs up to 80% off. plus, tons of limited-time mystery flash deals. and free shipping on everything when you shop from thanksgiving through cyber monday.
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former national security adviser john bolton broke silence about the impeachment inquir inquiry. sort of. after keeping mum wab he knows about the president's dealings with ukraine he sent these tweets yesterday teasing, something's coming. what? what is it? accusing the white house of refusing to let him tweet. then this morning, there's more. saying, he's been working on his political action committee. so what's he trying to say? covering the white house for the "washington post," i don't think you could be a mind reader, but what is bolton up to? >> well, kendis i love your dramatic delivery there. that's exactly what he's up to. he's having a little fun with all of us, but he's -- he's also
very much wanting to point at the white house and say that, according -- his claim is that the white house put some kind of lock, some kind of twitter jail on top of his personal account when he left government service on september 10th, and had refused to unlock it. even though it was his personal account. until earlier this week when, after going through twitter rather than going through the white house he regained use of his account. of course, the big, the larger question is, what will he say on twitter or in other venues about his time in the white house, and very specifically, what will he say about what he knows of the ukraine matter, which all unfolded while he was still in office. >> yeah. one of those other venues being congress.
the democrats would love to get bolton to testify in the inquiry. do we get any sense that he will? >> well, wep don't ha don't hav that he will. what he has done is leave the door at least cracked or propped open to an eventual forum in which he would talk about what he knows about the dealings with ukraine, you know, the democrats were very clear they were not going to wait for that to play out in the courts, and bolt been not come in voluntarily. so there's a bit of a standoff now. part of which may be resolved as soon as monday with one court ruling and then another court date set in early december in a case that bears on bolton's. so it's possible that depending on when the actual open vote part of the, open hearing part of the impeachment case takes
place, assuming that articles of impeachment are brought and that the house holds an impeachment session. i suppose it is possible that bolton could come forward at that time. he doesn't appear to me to be particularly eager to do so in that venue but appears to be here to say something and trying to give the white house a little bit of heartburn in the meantime. >> sure he's doing that. fiona hill you know testified john bolton referred rudy giuliani as a hand grenade. so giuliani appeared on fox a little earlier today, and had this to say. >> for john to say i'm a hand grenade, then he's an atomic bomb. >> okay. so let's just say there's no love lost between these guys? >> well, no. but certainly an even match. right? they're both very savvy players
in the world of entertainment politics, and beyond policy. they each understand how to package and present what they want to say and they're both trying to do it. >> thank you. we have new information about what went on behind the scenes before that now infamous call between president trump and president zelensky thanks to newly released documents from the state department that dropped overnight. the documents suggest there's a link between the president's personal attorney and rudy giuliani, and mike pompeo. around the same time the smear campaign against former ambassador marie yovanovitch was playing out. greg braugher is a former u.s. attorney who joins us from d.c. helping to shed light on all of this and what all of this, these documents mean, explain why people are looking at these documents and saying that they
may imp pllicate giuliani in a smear campaign? >> right. generally believed, kendis, giuliani has been involved, was involved, in fact a key participant in that campaign. we heard from witnesses in the past week in the congressional hearings that that's exactly the case. and what's interesting, i guess, about the new revelations is the extent to which secretary pompeo may have been involved or at least knew about it. ip think this makes perfect sense. right? because it's hard top imagine that giuliani could pull off removal of an ambassador without the secretary of state at least knowing tab if not acquiescing in it or participating in the effort. so details of these documents will be interesting. i think so far they seem to confirm that which has been obvious to most of us waging this. >> greg, you get the sense if giuliani was acting on the behest of the president, whether this would weigh in to the writing of anymore articles of impeachment? >> anymore, i don't know, kendis. remains to be seen, of course, exactly what that list of
articles looks like. i will say the testimony we've heard so far paints a very clear picture on exactly what was going on here with respect to the removal of the ambassador, with respect to the quid pro quo deal, with the ukrainians. it couldn't be clearer in my mind in terms of who was involved and what happened exactly. it's interesting that, you know, to the extent people want to say there still are gaps in the evidence, those gaps are created by those witnesses who have refused to testify, and i think at this point it's fair for the committee and for the house and for the american people to assume what we call in the law an adverse inference, if those witnesses who are not cooperating would be able to offer evidence to undermine the story that we've heard from virtually every witness so far, then they would, and the fact they're not offering that evidence, not cooperating and testifying means that the witness' story we've heard so far is the truth, and that's -- that's going to be the basis for
the house's action. >> what are we to make of those new reports we got overnight and over the last few days for that matter that devin nunes, ranking house republican member of the intelligence committee may have pushed for an investigation into joe biden's son? what do we know about that? >> well, we know apparently that a person by the name of lev parnas, indicted by the southern district of new york indictment that came down a few weeks ago indicated through his attorney he has some information and is willing to share it with congress and apparently with doj. we have to consider the source. based upon what we've heard so far, that information seems to make sense with the overall pattern by mr. nunes and his staff over the last two or three years. i can tell you from my experience at the fbi recently that we always suspected there was coordination between nunes and his staff and the white house along the lines of what
we're hearing about now, and so the fact that additional information is coming out to support that doesn't surprise me at all. >> all right. leave it there. greg braugher, thanks to you. you might have heard in all that talk about a mysterious dnc server allegedly hiding in ukraine. president trump is saying ukraine interfered in the 2016 election, not russia. we fact check that, next. we made usaa insurance for members like martin. an air force veteran made of doing what's right, not what's easy. so when a hailstorm hit, usaa reached out before he could even inspect the damage. that's how you do it right. usaa insurance is made just the way martin's family needs it - with hassle-free claims, he got paid before his neighbor even got started. because doing right by our members, that's what's right.
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it has been another long week on the impeachment front and just in the last five days, for example, a total of 12 witnesses many of them career foreign service officers testifying publicly providing more than 34 hours of evidence. nbc's haiti przybyla has highlights. >> reporter: after a dramatic week two of public impeachment hearings republicans are already plotting how they'll defend president trump in the senate as democrats contemplate their next move in the house. >> everyone was in the loop. >> reporter: wednesday began with a bombshell. u.s. ambassador to the eu gordon sondland saying he understood military aid to ukraine was conditioned to a promise to investigate trump's political rivals. sondland testifying that it was
held at the express direction of the president of the united states. >> was there a quid pro quo? as i testified previously, with regard to the requested white house call and the white house meeting, the answer is, yes. >> reporter: it's a claim president trump quickly denied. notes in hand, distancing himself from the donor turned diplomat. >> a say to the ambassador, his response, i want nothing. i want nothing. i want no quid pro quo. >> reporter: later wednesday another surprise revelation. laura cooper, a top pentagon official, said leaders in ukraine were aware there was some kind of issue with the military aid as early as july 25th. the same day as a call between president trump and the leader of ukraine. some of those who listened to that july 25th call said the white house summary was substantially correct, but described it as less than perfect. >> i found the july 25th phone
call unusual. it involved discussion of what appeared to be a domestic political matter. >> it is improper for the president of the united states to demand a government inve investigate a u.s. opponent. >> how its disclosure to play in washingtonal political climate. my fears have been realized. >> reporter: some anticipated the controversy, kurt volker special envoy to ukraine adjusted his tem saying he never linked it with corruption to investigate the bidens. >> in retrospect i should have seen that connection differently and had i done so would have raised my own objections. >> reporter: a connection not lost on fiona hill former white house expert on russia who described this encounter with sondland that made it clear in her mind exactly who was pulling the strings. >> i actually said who put new charge of ukraine and i was a
bit rude he told me the president which shut me up. he was being involved in a domestic political errant and we were involved in national security policy and those two things just diverged. >> reporter: hill later slamming the conspiracy theory it was ukraine and not russia who interfered in the 2016 u.s. presidential election. >> this is exactly what the russian government was hoping for. that they would pit one side of our electorate against the other. that they would pick one party against the other. >> reporter: another damning bit of testimony, top embassy aide in ukraine david holmes describing a cell phone conversation he overheard between sondland and the president of the united states. a call that came one day after trump's phone call with ukrainian president zelensky asking for a favor. >> so you heard president trump ask ambassador sondland, is he going to do the investigation? >> yes, sir. >> what was ambassador sondland's response?
>> he said, oh, yeah. he's going to do it. he'll do anything you ask. >> reporter: on thursday, house speaker nancy pelosi said democrats have yet to decide their next 12steps and put out offer for president trump to testify before the house intelligence committee. >> thanks. president trump doubled down on his claim that ukraine, not russia, interfered with the 2016 elections. yesterday on fox news the president insisted ukrainian officials had a dnc server linked to the elections. >> who has the server? >> the fbi went in and told him get out of here. we're not giving it to you. they gave the server to crowdstrike or whatever it's called a company owned by a wealthy ukrainian. i still want to see that server. the fbi never got that server. that's a big part of this whole thing. why did they give it to a ukrainian company? >> are you sure they did that?
gave it to ukraine? >> well, that's what the word is. what i asked actually in my phone call. you know? i asked point blank, because we're looking for corruption. >> nbc news political reporter, doing digging, fact checking on all of this. the president says that ukraine hacked a dnc server. so many years ago, and gave it to ukrainian company called crowdstrike. >> this is, you see tiptoeing around this. essentially alleging ukraine hacked the election, framed russia and all kind done to make trump look bad. there's no evidence behind this. what we know happened, russians hacked the dnc to take a bunch of emails. dnc hired a private security firm crowdstrike to go in, see what happened. evidence they were hacked, go in. oh, it's russia. clean you of you the servers, rebuild serbors, decommission servers go in do the work private cyber work security firm
doss. no evidence it was ukraine the fact he's pushing this theory aweek after a lot of testimony about how none of that happened is alarming. this is the conspiracy theory that got trump to go into ukraine and get into this mess. you know what i mean? exactly what giuliani was going and pushing an idea maybe it was actually ukraine and framed russia and all democrats fault to make trump look bad. you think a global conspiracy democrats would have wanted to win the election if behind this? no evidence of this. >> the president seems to think there's one dnc server. >> sticks out a tiny detail, portraying a larger misunderstanding what's going on. 140 server decommissioned by the dnc. 11 rebuilt. the number, at least one sitting next to a filing cabinet in the dnc but the watergate burg broke into. for the dnc, a piece of computers. i'm not sure if i looked at it other than it's a piece of metal. i don't think trump can either's he thinks if he finds the server
he'll be able to xexonerate himself or someone else. >> who does it help? >> end of the day. russia. this theory, conspiracy theory we're talking about only helps russian interestsnot us. puts a division between ukraine and the u.s. they would like to put a fissure in tlnd ahere, and you know lawmakers, "new york times" reported lawmakers are briefed by intelligence agencies this was, russia was framing ukraine for this. there's no doubt. russia hacked the 2016 election. the fact we're still talking about this two years later, very weird. >> muddles the debate and narrative a and what a lot of pee people want to do in this case. thank you. turns out spotting fake news is not easy. a new study finds young voters
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ptd internet the survey tested ability to detect fake news in a serious of scenarios. 52% of students believed this video claiming to show ballot stuffing in 2016 democratic primaries constituted as strong evidence of voter fraud. of the more than 3,000 responses, only three students tracked down the source of the video which a quick search revealed it was shot in actually russia. joining me now, sam weinberg, founder and executive director of the stanford history education group and author "why we learn his his when it's already on your phone." and sam, start with you on this study out of stanford. you worked on it and describe the results as troubling. why? >> it's troubling when our young people who we often refer to as digital natives, they can operate devices quite effect
lively, but when we ask them to evaluate the kind of information those devices yield, they're not where we want them to be. >> and how alarming are these results especially early in the context of 2020? >> kendis, really alarming. i think what it really does is punches a hole in what i think tends to be a lot of people's sort of assumptions what the solution is here. people think we just need to sharpen up our skills and we will somehow get better. what this reveals is how good the technology is. if you look at your average deep fake video making the rounds right now, your eyes can't tell the difference whether it's bill hader with arnold schwarzenegger face slapped on top of it. you know, your eyes will not tell you the difference. so i think what it reveals is certainly a huge limitation to, as the professor pointed out, what students can pick up on and
shows how overwhelming our technological and digital diet of news is right now. >> we actually have a video of obama you provided for us. look at it. they say it's a perfect example of what? >> this is, i'm hoping, one of the steps forward towards perhaps a future where we can rely on technology to help us know what's true in addition to tricking us. curious of professor weinberg the opinion. analyzes verbal and visual ticks of political and public figures. feed enough footage of president obama into a piece of ai, it realizes he basically every time opens up his video monologues says hi, everybody. up to the right. you see it over and over again. in in way ai can compare that are to a deep fake like jordan of jordan peele combined with president obama and realize, oh, patterns of how this person is talking even to our eyes looks perfect, to ai, point out
probably a deep fake pap new initiative coming out now. nbc may be deploying it to help us spot defects. again, our eyes can't do the job. professor, interested to hear whether you think technology is the solution or rely on education to help these kids? >> professor? >> jake, you know, i think when we talk about different kinds of fakes, the actual video that our students looked at was not a deep fake. it was a cheap fake. a grainy video with poor production quality. with a few captions slapped underneath that said, have you noticed that it's always the democrats who are behind voter fraud? all students needed to do was open up their browser and choose a few key search words. democratic vote fraud, video, they would immediately have come upon an article by snopes or something that, the bbc video which actually showed this, that it wasn't shot in the united
states it was part of the russian campaign to elect putin. so, yes. i agree with you that the dangers before us are dramatic. but our students are driving on the information highway without so much as a driver's license. before we rely on advanced forms of technology, we need to teach our young people as well as our adults some basic internet hygiene. when you don't know what you're looking at, open up a few browser tabs and search there. let's start with that. >> so don't take what it says it is. do a little more search. that video out quite a bit. an election search would have found it. thank you. long gone, you might say, are the days when the debate at the thanksgiving table would simply be, beans, greens, tomatoes, potatoes, hams, you
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of course he should build the waum wall. they're coming across by theless. >> mrs. douglas, uncle lou, if we could just please get back to the original question. could someone please pass the salt? [ laughter ] >> nothing like sweet potatoes and hot topics to make this thanksgiving a hot mess. but for the politically divided families out there, you don't have to be at each other's throats, really. here with me is director of columbia university's law school mediation program, alexandra carter. really, it's a stressful stressful week for a lot of people. so you have three tips, alex. three tips to surviving a politically divided
thanksgiving. tip one? >> sure. first let me say this topic hits home for me personally because image from what i call a purple family where half of the folks really supported president trump and half of the folks really want to serve impeachment pie for dessert. my first tip is what counterintuitive. it's actually to listen first when somebody talks to you. i teach that actually if you want to persuade more, you need to listen better, right? so if somebody says medicare for all is going to be a disaster for my health care, i would say it sounds like you have concerns about what would happen for you under that system. >> if that argument does blow up, how do you calm things down? >> look, everybody has that uncle ken at the thanksgiving table. he gets too drunk and argues about football and politics. i know some of you out there are thinking, you know, not really. my family doesn't have that if you're thinking that, i have news for you. you are uncle ken. all right? sorry.
it's the way it is. i'm going to say something else really controversial here today. it may get me in a lot of trouble. sweet potato pie is a superior pie to pumpkin pie. >> obviously. >> and don't all jump on the bandwagon either. >> no, no, no. get him out of here. no. >> that's it, i'm mic dropping. >> shepherd's pie. tip number two? >> tip number two is to ask questions, right, but not cross-question questions like how could you possibly think that? it's not something that's open up discussion or persuade somebody to evolve their thinking. so what i like to ask is tell me. when you say the impeachment inquiry is a witch hunt, can you tell me what makes you think that? >> oh, so open-ended question? >> in that way -- think of it as opposition research. you're going to find out exactly what somebody thinks so that then you might be able to meet them where they are and possibly persuade them to change.
i know, i see it. >> you know, i know it adds a little bit of levity but those tactics work when you're talking to reasonable thinking people. but i really am quite frankly not interested in trump supporters' opinions. i'm not interested in trying to penetrate that layer of willful ignorance. i just think at this point we have children present still locked in cages, i just don't want that kind of discourse. >> the president obviously covers many topics. there's one of our relatives who come through and is wearing a maga hat -- >> let me just tell you. okay? in a black family there are not going to be a ma cahats, maybe at the kanye household, i'll
tell you what's frustrating for me, conspiracy theories. everybody, you know, has an idea and quite hopelessness this sounds politically snobby, i am not interested in talking politics with people who are not versed in it. >> i'm told that, don't talk politics but talk religion. that's always fun, tip number three. >> i'm not sure. my tip number three is find something you have in common. so a lot of times -- >> dna. >> yeah. dna only goes so far. a lot of times even if you have totally different policy opinions, you might share a common interest. if somebody says, well, i'm really interested in national security, i might say i share that concern, and that's why i'm actually supporting the inquiry because i want us to be free from foreign influence. in that way, again, you might have the hope of meeting
somebody where they are. but let me just say that is not to say you need to take abuse, right? if somebody has had four glasses of bad wine and they're being disrespectful, you state your limits and exit. >> and it gets ugly, you have a lawyer here ononed. >> that's right. >> i'm also a lawyer. >> does it make me morally bankrupt that i like the fighting? it's not a spectator sport. >> i grab my popcorn. i got to go. happy thanksgiving. >> happy thanksgiving. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> happy birthday. >> thank you, folks. thank you all. >> we're argue over into the potato, beans, pie. >> kale and egg whites, you're a health not, no pie for you. >> once a year. we'll be right back. not what's easy. >> once a year. we'll be right back. ut, no pie . >> once a year. we'll be right back. for you
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